forum.TeamFREDNET.org

Here is a start of a thread for proto-typing mindstorm activities. The wiki portal is here:

http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.ph ... Mindstorms

SC

Fresh ideas are welcome!
Josuha

Had a good telecon today 09-06-18!

Check out the wiki for notes on the skype call:

http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.ph ... Mindstorms

SC

Hi all,
Lego Mindstorm has been portalized. The Mindstorm group is part of the rover group and is dedicated to promote a collaborative open source robotics environment for students.



Enjoy it!
Joshua

Very nice!

I agree. Nice done Joshua!

SC

Last Tuesday I had opportunity to try out RCX. on this I have thougth about the design of the software.
see the wiki page: http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Portal:Lego_Mindstorms

But I have a few qeustions:
1) How many programs can be preloade on NXT?(Like: when hit wall stop; when dark then turn).
2) Is it possible to request missed message with IRC?
3) what do you think about the web interface(http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Image:Mindstorm_draft_web.jpg)

Marc

This looks good. We can look into these questions w. Thomas on Thursday.

Is this from the on-line 'Mars rover' interface? Can someone post a link to this here in the forum?

SC

Congratulations Marc,
This interface looks nice and simple... this is KISS!
Regards,
Joshua

Also for the next meeting:

• Ross did you mean: IRC(internet Relay Chat) or NASA Interoperable Remote Component Architecture (IRC).
• Which server is available

Ross' IRC is the later - NASA Interoperable Remote Component Architecture (IRC)

SC

Then I think we should drop this idea for now because Interoperable Remote Component will lead till much more work and we probably wouldn't be enable to make the deadline. may be in the future.

Marc

I think a really good approach is forming, not sure if you agree..

* an IRC (as in internet relay chat) server connects with the rover
** work proceeds on the rover using any irc client to define that interaction, big extra points for some kind of telemetry feedback

* and the IRC (as in NASA) gui can connect to the IRC server for a graphical front end

Marc,

It's up to you and Ross to decide how to do this - not me. Maybe IRC (the chat version) is the way to make this happen. You'll want to down load commands and have a remote interface.

We should talk about the inner workings and decide on a reasonable/speedy approach.

Cheers,

SC

jdp wrote:* an IRC (as in internet relay chat) server connects with the rover
** work proceeds on the rover using any irc client to define that interaction, big extra points for some kind of telemetry feedback

* and the IRC (as in NASA) gui can connect to the IRC server for a graphical front end

Note that if the video from the rover is streamed via our ustream channel an IRC chatroom is created automatically (try to watch some of the live ustream shows)! We tried it once with Tobi's Jaluro though the commands were not sent via the chatroom - that would be the next step.

This would be nice, but we should look how this chat is work bucause lot's of schools are behind a firewal which will block ICR chat/stream(at my should this is the case).

Marc

Good point! I should have thought about that since I'm bothered by this issue very often.

The IRC port issue can usually be solved by using a web-client such as Mibbit - this is what we use at http://test.oz9aec.net/tfirc.html
Unfortunately, Ustream does not allow Mibbit clients

May be this a solution for our problem:
Windows:
Videolan: http stream on port 80
Linux:
ffserver: http stream on port 80

IRC(internet relay chat) chat only use for internal server communicates.
Marc

I believe both VLC and ffserver are available for all platforms. I'm not quite sure about ffserver, though.

FFserver isn't a available on windows.

Marc

Also for the meeting:

• There is not jet a project organisation software chosen http://forum.xprize.frednet.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=294, may be first in google code or launchpad

Today Ross pointed out the Red Rover project - which is here:

http://www.planetary.org/programs/proje ... ars_rover/

Try the South Pole rover (and other sites).

Ross is planning to contact Linda Hamilton about the controller software. Given what's available, we can see if it fits our immediate needs. We've also asked Linda to participate in one of our weekly calls to talk about lessons learned through the Red Rover project.

Today's notes are on the wiki. http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.ph ... Mindstorms

Making progress.

SC

Good!
Joshua

First software has programmed:
Please read this before using it:
http://code.google.com/p/teamfrednet-mo ... Readme.txt
then:
http://teamfrednet-mockups.googlecode.c ... %20Api.exe

Well done, Marc.
Regards,
Joshua

cool beans

Some software updates have been done.
For more detailed look at the wiki: http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Lego_Mindstorms_software

Programmed control - more sophisticated (upload rover operations)

(http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.ph ... orms#Notes)
Is this what you want:

Marc and Ross,

What would people think of controlling this lego vehicle via an iPhone app?

iPhone is a HUGE market.

Does anyone know anything about creating iphone apps? What about facebook apps?

We'll talk about this on our next Lego call.

SC

scasey wrote:Marc and Ross,

What would people think of controlling this lego vehicle via an iPhone app?

iPhone is a HUGE market.

Does anyone know anything about creating iphone apps? What about facebook apps?

We'll talk about this on our next Lego call.

SC

nice idea.. an iphone linking the bot from bluetooth to a web telecommand server..

Marc posted this great Red Rover site:

http://www.brickvista.com/features/redR ... Rover.html

People should look at some of the vehicles that were developed for this exercise.

http://www.brickvista.com/models.html

In particular see the YogiCub Rover at the site above.

Only a few of these are actually Mindstorm devices. We expect to have considerably more Mindstorm specific devices.

SC

Hey Marc,
Very nice!
Joshua

There have been a Pre-Alpha of the mindstorm software.
I will ask everyone who has NXT with bluetooth to test the software out.

http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Lego_Mindstorms_first#install_easy_way

Please report your result with it.

FYI, there is now an awesome LEGO NXT mockup of Picorover made by members of the LEGO Mindstorm group Thomas and Eric.

Very good news, Alex.
Congratulations again, Eric and Thomar. Good video.
Joshua

Here are notes from today 09-07-30:

Looking at Bricklink.com for NXT components

Still looking for loaner - could buy the whole kit

Initial vehicle is Tri-bot

Initial camera is fixed position web cam

RC - Down load and operate software (this weekend)

Pushing to get a rudimentary set-up operational by Sept 1

August is working the software and the user interface.

Eric to sketch out the preferred interface

Eventual iphone operation thereafter.

Here is the link to the forum discussion on iPhone apps:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=552&p=4496&hilit=iphone&sid=1026c21d8b32f09ea4dd0e2d13806e30#p4496

Note we also discussed the demo flights for remote camera operations....

SC

The rover control software is updated:

New open source program for making install wizards: inno Setup
Add stream to web interface, this one can be set in config.php; tested with VideoLan 200kbit stream, WMV2, no audio, mss
menu item Exit work.
Manuel select sensors type.
Some minor change in web interface.

Please de-install early version first.


The current install instructies:
instructions to install:
download and install wampserver: http://www.wampserver.com/en/download.php
use default setup path.

download the installer from http://teamfrednet-mockups.googlecode.c ... /setup.exe and run it.

run it:
start the wamp server.
start lego mindstorm remote control(start menu)
go to http://localhost/rover/

I suggest you change the name to Lego Mindstorms Remote Control Instead of Lege Mindstorm Remote Control

Thanks Wefas, good point.
Joshua

Wefas wrote:I suggest you change the name to Lego Mindstorms Remote Control Instead of Lege Mindstorm Remote Control

Is fixes with some other change in version 0.1.99.3

Because we have start developing code for the project, we need a License.
Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States

What are the thoughts about it?

MarcBrakels wrote:Because we have start developing code for the project, we need a License.
Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States

What are the thoughts about it?

For software, I think GNU GPL or an OSI approved license might be more appropriate.

GNU GPL should work but we have to remember, we should have a way to make money for the launch.
For example by selling complete packs(rover, docs, software) and with GNU GPL License someone else can do this so we don't get any money.

MarcBrakels wrote:GNU GPL should work but we have to remember, we should have a way to make money for the launch.
For example by selling complete packs(rover, docs, software) and with GNU GPL License someone else can do this so we don't get any money.

Uhm... but I though that was the whole point with Team FREDNET... Besides, people do make money by selling linux, open office and other GPL'd software and also hardware!

Anyway, my point was that creative commons licenses are designed for artistic work rather than software. Software is slightly more complicated because it is "active", i.e. it has input/output, it links to other software, etc. So the license has to address all these issues.

oh, but this is what makes the economic problem so much fun.. it's a novel challenge.

we accept these constraints
* for the benefit of our general level of technology and cooperation, we're open source.
* for the benefit of our missions, we need some modest capital.

and for the benefit of our capitalization, we endeavor to find ways of exploiting our software and hardware (etc).

(by "software" we would include all digital machine readable information resources -- code that does (economic) work in both direct and indirect ways)

... or http://www.moonbots.org/ which is supposed to be the "TBD website" on the space fellowship page... the date is wrong too!

alexc wrote:

MarcBrakels wrote:Because we have start developing code for the project, we need a License.
Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States

What are the thoughts about it?

For software, I think GNU GPL or an OSI approved license might be more appropriate.

Yeah,
Agree with Alex.
Joshua

Using Labview to program Mindstorms:

http://twitter.com/labview/statuses/3151862163

For design/building of the final version of the web interface we are looking for some one with expercing in PHP,MYSQL,css,Ajax or in one of these.

http://wiki.xprize.frednet.org/index.php/Tasks:Lego_Mindstorms_creating_of_web_interface

Please contect me Marc Brakels

Tomorrow there will be demo of soft- and hardware of lego mindstorm project. 2 PM PDT-3 pm PDT(11 PM CET-12 PM CET).

We hope for many people join as possible.
To join send a message to Sean with skype name(He is meeting leader).

Marc